Dumb Domme was asked a question about submissive men pitching woo. In her response, she referenced a post by Mistress Lilyana about her frustration that she was never romanced by submissive men and she pointed to a conversation that the three of us had about it on twitter.
I left a ranty comment on Mistress Lilyana’s post at the time and then wrote an equally ranty post here (I’d actually forgotten all about that post, and wrote THIS post before I realised I’d ALREADY FUCKING RANTED ABOUT THIS… GRRRR!).
Even before all the ranting, I’d written on ‘pitching woo’ before where I said:
I will pitch woo at a boy I am interested in like a major league pitcher, but he had better come to the party and catch, and then do some pitching of his own.
In truth, I think if there is a mismatch in how someone gives and receives romantic attention, you (general ‘you’) have a pretty serious problem that I don’t think even the best communication is going to get over. I suspect Dumb Domme’s solution to give a list of gestures and timings (go read it for the full brief!) would work fine in terms of mechanics (that is, he would happily do it), but I also suspect it would never really *feel* like the kind of sweetness/love/affection/romance that you want.
For me, if I don’t feel the strength of his romantic interest in a way that works for me at the beginning when he’s bringing his A game, I’m out. I *know* it’s not magically going to get better.
In the past I have tried to coach boys I really liked in how better to ‘woo’ me (mostly it takes the form of “I *know* you feel it, so SHOW me, TELL me, EXPRESS it): I’ve learnt that it’s a losing proposition. They will try really hard, but they will fail because how someone expresses desire or affection is a pretty fundamental part of how they relate.
I keep thinking of those excruciating conversations where the woman says “You never bring me flowers” and he says, “But look, I just spent the day digging you a vegetable garden!” (this example taken from an actual conversation a friend of mine had with her partner even though it sounds like something out of a bad romcom). Both parties are completely baffled that the other doesn’t see their point.
I think of ‘how someone demonstrates love/desire/affection’ as a pretty fundamental part of ‘who they are’, and while I think you can make it work if you have a mismatch, there is a risk that you will end up feeling unappreciated and unloved if your partner isn’t expressing their affection in a way that resonates with you.
In short, if he’s worth it overall, I think you can make small incremental improvements with work, and if he starts at, say 55% of the way there, maybe you can get him to 60% and that’s okay. On the other hand, if he’s awesome but his starting point is 25% of the way there, I think you are screwed and you either live with it, or move on.
So I’m curious: If you are a submissive man, do/did you ‘romance’ your dominant? And if so, how did you figure out the best way to do that? What does that look like?
For the dominant women, do you want to be wooed, pursued, romanced? And what do you want that to look like? Did you ever struggle to get it?