In F/m, using sex as a reward seems to be a thing. Where the sub’s good behaviour earns sex.
If folks enjoy it, great. But to me it’s the grossest thing.
On all levels.
In my mind, it leads to scenarios like this:
- Ugh I don’t feel like having sex but he’s ‘earned’ it so I suppose I have to now
- I feel like having sex but he was ‘naughty’ yesterday, so I guess I don’t get any
- Gee I hope he’s ‘good’ so I can get some sex
- I hope he’s disobedient, I don’t feel like having sex today
The end result would be that my sexual desires would count for nothing, would be irrelevant. They’d be entirely usurped by, and dependent on, my submissive’s behaviour.
To any and all of that.
Well, when you put it that way, it seems unarguable within D/s. But, many will argue, I’m sure.
Well, I doubt many who have experience in F/m relationships would argue. Most of the folks I’ve encountered who believe sex should be a reward for submissive men are men whose entire experience is with pornography.
It’s just so transactional, the idea leaves me cold. It strikes me as being the antithesis of D/s – this idea that you do something to get something.
I wonder sometimes if people look in on F/m couples and sometimes get the wrong idea of how they work from outside. It’s fun, it’s hot, to tease inside a relationship and say things like “Well that’s it, no sex for you this month” or intimate that if you are good sex is on the cards. Those (for me) aren’t about sex though, they are about teasing because you both know you fancy each other, its foreplay, it’s picking fun at each other over a shared bond, it’s delighting in your desire for each other, it’s messing around with the idea of power play and highlighting that she has final authority over things, if she wants to.
Nah, probably not, it’s just too many porny ideas that women want to use men for sex and sex is either a reward or service.
The thing that bothers me most about it is not only the transactional aspect, but the *obligation* you create with it, where you either have to break your word or have sex when you don’t want to. Just WTF *is* that?
I think you could be right that there might be some new folks who look in from outside and then implement ‘how it looks’. It doesn’t help that ‘how it looks’ is often some sexy idea that seems awesome on the surface.
“You have to EARN the honour of sex with your Goddess! Bwuhahahahaha!”
The ‘Oh wait. But but…’ realisation of how that will actually work doesn’t come up until later.
It is not a reward in our FLR/male chastity marriage. I willingly serve my Keyholder with pleasure to show my appreciation for her taking control of me. Sex happens when she says. It can’t be earned. I serve to fulfill my deep submisdivr needs and she loves the power and attention she receives from me. Lots of teasing and denial to keep us amused and me frustrated.
I’m happy you found what works for you and your Keyholder :)
“Sex happens when she says.”
That makes perfect sense to me.
Talk about reducing a beautiful bonding experience to crass transactional. Sex should be independant of reward and obligation. I can see where if a sub does sonething “good ” it increases tge Dommes desire to have sex. Like romance may inspireit in “vanilla”. Sex must be mutual and consent goes both ways. Obligation is for work not sex. My two cents.
Yes to that point: If the Domme is happy, she is much more likely to want to play and/or have sex. It’s a consequence of good relationshipping :).
We have chastity and denial as part of our F/m D/s, but it’s denial for me, not for her. Even when she declares it will be X time before my next orgasm, there’s always an implicit caveat of “unless she feels like it in the moment.” She’s in charge–she’s not going to foreclose her own options. So in sum, we have sex when she wants to, period, end of sentence. That’s what makes sense for us in an F/m relationship. We perceive anything else as taking away her control.
“So in sum, we have sex when she wants to, period, end of sentence. That’s what makes sense for us in an F/m relationship. We perceive anything else as taking away her control.”
I see it much the same :).
Yup. I felt every one of those when my relationship began to fall apart. Even worse, in some ways, the slowly growing suspicion that their every action was based around whether or not it earn them sex (or a punishment they were seeing as enjoyable) made my interest in any sex disappear. And once that happened, they became even worse, because now nothing they did ‘earned’ it. I’m still trying to work through the sense of failure and shame of not being able to give my sub enough sex, despite their behavior being directly responsible for my loss of interest. Which continues to this day.
Ugh. I’m sorry it turned out that way.
I can 100% see why that would happen.
The ‘punishment’ idea sits well with the point above about ‘seeing things from outside and implementing what you see’. If punishment for behaviour you genuinely don’t like is enjoyable for your submissive (whether it’s because of the attention they get, the act, your pleasure, whatever positive thing), it actually encourages them to act out.
I assume it was your first D/s relationship (or an early one, perhaps the most invested to date), so at the risk of sounding patronising: Pretty much all early relationships are learning experiences where you get things wrong (vanilla AND D/s). You can’t know what you don’t know.
I talked about failure and shame recently, and I absolutely understand why you feel it (still). It’s hard to let things go, but I imagine you did your best with the information you had, and you learnt something valuable. Not just about parts of the dynamic, but how important it is to be able to discuss and correct your course if you see something not working how you thought or hoped it would.
Hopefully when you’re ready, you will find that spark again with someone else, and will find the courage to try again.
I’d put this in your “Ask Me” section but it’s kind of an urgent matter that needs your advice.
Ever since watching Nancy “not one dollar” Pelosi completely prevail in the shutdown, and now seeing her “f**k you” hand clapping, my devotion to her has grown to a weird super-devotion and I’m worried that soon I’ll like her even more than you. Yes, that much! What should I do apart from boxing myself up and shipping myself to Washington?
The handclap thing is here and is awesome:
(I know I really should be posting this to your “Ask Me” section. I guess that means no sex for me???)
You should start campaigning for her party. There, sorted :P.
Consider systems of rewards and punishments that are not based on sex.
As an example of a reward, a woman might give her man permission to buy his favorite flavor of ice cream.
As an example of a punishment, a woman might deny her man the use of his electronics for a set period.
As for sex in an F/m relationship, a male could ask how he could serve the woman’s sexual pleasure.
The danger of ‘rewards and punishment’ of any sort is that they become the *reason* for decisions.
It might work just fine for some.
For others it can create a situation where the submissive makes decisions on ‘obey or not’ based on whether they want the reward or fear the punishment. That is, the actual motivation for submission moves away from ‘to please my dominant’ and towards ‘weighing consequences’.
For me, that’s NOT what I want my D/s to look like.
My submissive’s submission should *make him happy*. That’s the bottom line.
It seems to me that the use of sex for reward or punishment arises within a Patriarchal, M/f marriage. The sex thing would give the woman some leverage in a relationship in which she is other wise dominated.
This motive may seem superfluous in a F/m relationship, in which the woman is in charge and can use other methods for reward or punishment.
I think many women have *learnt* this for that reason, yes.
So some Dommes become trapped in a ‘sex is power’ mindset which can actually end up making them a slave to his desires. I think that can work beautifully for many, especially if they are keeping it to the bedroom or they are short term relationships.
Long term broader D/s, not so much.
And they often won’t realise that’s happening until the relationship is past the flush of NRE and they find that to get what they want, they have to get his dick hard FIRST. That’s often the moment they start to go ‘hoooold on…’