Sweet and lovely men

After reading a post from a submissive man essentially saying, “I really like this dominant woman, she makes my heart flutter, but I’m concerned that I’m too eager to do the small and insignificant things she asks me for this early in our discussions: I’m not sure I’m comfortable with that”, I reflected a little on the oddness of that.

And it led me to this realisation:

You know what I’ve found?

Vanilla men are often WAAAYYY more secure in being sweet and lovely than many submissive men and as a result, they often do ‘submissive behaviours’ more easily and naturally. It’s weird.

Vanilla man: “Hey, I really like you, LET ME DO ALL THE SWEET AND LOVELY THINGS FOR YOU!!”

Submissive man: “Hey, I really like you. You want what? Maybe I shouldn’t do that. She will think I’m weak. I’m not ready to submit yet. Is this submission? I should stop doing that. Does she want my money? Why did she ask for that? Should I do what she asked for? I’m not HER submissive. Am I doing this right?” and etc.

Gross generalisations, I know, and I’m pre-emptively inserting all the caveats here (and pointing out specifically that this does NOT apply to any of my friends)… ~caveat caveat~.

But still, as far as generalisations go, my experience does bear that out.

I’m not going to parse out the possible reasons why (not least of which is my own skewed and limited sample size): I’m just going to leave this here for contemplation.

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  1. I was just reflecting on this very thing tonight! I’ve been trying out some dating sites. Vanilla guys are quite fine with suggesting meeting for coffee (or agreeing to if I’ve brought it up first). Submissive guys will qualify it with “I hope it’s not too forward….” or “If I’m not overstepping….” FFS it’s COFFEE. It’s a first meet! Gah!

    At a recent munch at a Chinese restaurant, a woman I’d just met, sitting across from me and next to her Dom and partner poured me more tea from the communal pot after asking if I wanted more as she was already pouring herself some. I said “sure, thanks!” and thought nothing of it.

    SHE however almost fell over herself making sure I knew she wasn’t pouring the tea because she was submissive – that the otherwise normal act of courtesy was not coming from a place of submission.

    That had not occurred to me and I told her as much.

    I think it’s the other side of what we (I, at least) normally see as a positive about D/s – clearly defined roles. When you begin in a place of clearly defined roles, you run the risk of letting the roles define you instead of the other way around.

    1. What Susannah Clary said.
      > SHE however almost fell over herself making sure I knew she wasn’t pouring the tea because she was submissive – that the otherwise normal act of courtesy was not coming from a place of submission.

      People get all sorts of crazy when it comes to D/s, and not understanding the difference between a awesome D/s relationship, and common courtesy.

      I grew up calling people sir or ma’am. Everyone gets called that if I don’t know their name. It’s manners. People tend to not understand this difference. People get too caught up in the sexy d/s times, and move away from … normal real life interactions.

    2. @Susannah Your example at the Chinese restaurant is perfect!

      In a vanilla context, it’s a perfectly pleasant polite thing to do. Add some D/s context and suddenly there’s a whole bunch of angsty second guessing around it. Ugh.


  2. I have run into this a few times myself. Could it be that with a ‘bit of experience’ comes what you mention here; the over-thinking of their actions?

    And they say women are complicated! Ha!

    ~ Vista

    1. I think that’s it, yes: overthinking, and then angsting over it.

      What it means in practice is that some of those men will essentially do NOTHING sweet (or even polite) ‘just in case’ you think they are giving you their ‘gift of submission’. Or something. So then you are dealing with someone super defensive who treats you like their mate down the pub so as to avoid any hint of ‘submissive’ behaviour.

      I find it so weird. And I’m completely not interested in them if they think that way and behave accordingly. I really don’t even care why. Not my problem.


  3. I think it’s because when a vanilla man does those things he’s just doing things, but when a ‘submissive’ man does them it’s a sexual/romantic gesture and all that those things imply.

    1. Maybe, but if he really likes her (i.e. IS sexually and romantically interested) and then refuses to grant her even the most basic sweetnesses that any vanilla man would gladly and enthusiastically offer to show his interest… *shrug*… I just don’t know how he can expect her to a) recognise his interest or get any clue as to how he treats his partner or b) stick around at all because… bleh.


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