I’ve said this a million times before and will probably repeat it a million more times before I’m dead:
Dominant women who want a D/s relationship aren’t going to be interested in a man just because he’s submissive.
Approaching any relationship-orientated dominant woman with ‘I’m submissive’ as your ‘tah-daaah’ trump card doesn’t carry any weight.
Dominant women are interested in a man because he’s awesome and interesting and funny and smart and compatible with them and amazing in all the ways that a vanilla man they might choose to partner with is amazing to them.
AND
He’s submissive.
It’s not ‘he’s submissive and I don’t care about the rest’. That’s not how actual-for-real human relationships work. I know: Shocker!
No relationship-orientated dominant woman in the history of the world has ever gone ‘Yeah he’s really boring and a huge arsehole and we have nothing in common, but wow is he ever a great submissive, so yes please!”
Has never happened, doesn’t happen, will never happen.
18 comments
Great post!
So many men, either actually submissive or wanting to be submissive, unknowingly make things about them. How great they are because they have submissive fantasies and also … disregard their age or their weight or their level of hair loss, or their prowess of their 3-6” penis – which either will cum too quickly or not stay hard – if it sees the light and inside of an actual woman’s virgina … etc. So I agree agree with you totally on the fact a man has a submissive side and over realizes his its relative importance in a relationship.
I have always found it interesting to show & introduce myself to a perspective dominant woman as a successful, well educated man, – in my case with a level of importance in the design field I’m in, during initial communications with them. I have also found it interesting to dress like I’m going on a date (which I really am) and offer to take them to dinner or lunch. To present yourself as a humbly arrogant male that needs and wants what this Dominant woman has to offer… and while doing so strives not be a mansplaining typical male and let her drive the course of the lunch or dinner and discussion. I have had to pay for this privilege and also the meal but found it very interesting to then session with them. It built on the anticipation and made me feel like pray toying with their eventual captor and debaser!
If we submissive males can get over ourselves and shut our mouths more often than not, we might be closer to one day be on our knees and have our mouths opened wide with a strapon sliding in and out of it.
We have to make it worth woman’s time, effort, and spark her interest… especially if you’re trying to build a relationship with a real woman in say a female led relationship who is not a professional domme.!
Paula
“I have had to pay for this privilege and also the meal but found it very interesting to then session with them”
I am quite confused by the fact that you’re talking about professional dominants in response to this post.
Most pro-Dommes I know don’t care about your private life or who you are or if you’re boring or not. ‘Be polite, follow the instructions on their website, and pay the asking rate’ just about covers the requirements there. If you pay for their time to take them out and that’s part of their service offering, then that’s great, I’m sure they’re very happy with that. If you pay for the full Girl Friend Experience, then that’s great also.
I’m sure they appreciate good company from a pleasant client, as do all professionals, but at the root of it, they don’t really care if you’re funny or smart or compatible. They’re happy to pretend you are even if you’re not because you’re a paying client.
So chalk and cheese there.
“We have to make it worth woman’s time, effort, and spark her interest… especially if you’re trying to build a relationship with a real woman in say a female led relationship who is not a professional domme.!”
Not ‘especially if’: Just ‘if’.
Ferns
Sounds good but isn’t true. Look at the sub men on fetlife there are so many of them and so few dommes. they are begging
Oh trust me, I’ve looked at them. Many many of them. For years and years.
The vast majority are just horny randoms calling themselves ‘submissive’ because they want some lady, any lady, any one at all (no, not you, you’re too fat/ugly/not wearing the right outfit/not willing to do all my kinks/aren’t using the right tone/etc etc) to do the things they’ve madly wanked over in porn to them.
THAT’S what they are begging for, and that ain’t submission.
Ferns
Oh, I hope this is a post you have drafted a long time ago. I hope you have published this now, just to clean up the inventory. But more likely there’s a series of recent disappointments that triggered it …
Who are these men, I wonder …
Some of them are probably not relationship-orientated at all. They contact you, looking for a quick fix, a quick relief. Maybe they even have only one hand free while writing to you. Or they simply don’t have the panache you are looking for. And then that’s the end of it.
But I guess there are also wonderful men who are merely stressed and scared to make a mistake. They know the odds are against them, because there are many of them and only one of you. They are afraid to mention an opinion or a passion that doesn’t agree with you, and that this will make you discard them and go for the next one. And therefore they want to play safe and go for the one topic they feel confident about : you are looking for a submissive, so submission is what they will shower you with. Until you choke on it. And so they crash headfirst into the very obstacle they wanted to avoid …
It’s mere clumsiness and a sad miss for both parties involved …
“Oh, I hope this is a post you have drafted a long time ago. I hope you have published this now, just to clean up the inventory. But more likely there’s a series of recent disappointments that triggered it …”
Ha! Neither. An in-the-moment post prompted by yet another shockingly bad take that crossed my path on social media. Nothing personal at all.
“Some of them are probably not relationship-orientated at all.”
This is undoubtedly true.
“But I guess there are also wonderful men who are merely stressed and scared to make a mistake. They know the odds are against them, because there are many of them and only one of you. They are afraid to mention an opinion or a passion that doesn’t agree with you, and that this will make you discard them and go for the next one.”
Firstly, what I’ve talked about here bears no resemblance to what you are describing.
Either way, I hear similar to this a lot and I just don’t buy it in cases where men seem incapable of considering that women are human beings. Excuses for a fundamental inability to treat women as human beings are just that: Excuses. And they’re bogus.
If I sound like I have no sympathy for grown men who can’t relate to women as fellow human beings, it’s because I don’t.
We (society at large, women, men, everyone) make excuses for men behaving poorly everywhere all the time, and to my own credit, I (mostly) don’t blast men in their faces for doing it. I do PSAs like this and will often point men to them. That’s the limit of my kindness.
And let me say this: The response to me pointing men to posts like this is often ‘lol ok stupid bitch, you’re too fat/ugly/old/bitter/somethin’ for me anyway’ or similar. Every dominant woman on the internet will tell you similar. And trust me when I say that women’s willingness to be kind to men who don’t recognise our humanity runs out pretty damn quick in the face of it.
Ferns
Well, we clearly had two very different types of men in mind.
I had read your post as : “Don’t be a one-dimensional submissive adult comic-book stereotype; be a real person with a real character and real interests, so that maybe – if there is chemistry and compatibility – you can build a real connection. Because if she is ever to fall in love with you, it will have to be because of YOU, not your submissiveness.”
I imagined a situation that was about style and being overzealous; a case of too much nerves, rather than too little respect.
But as I understand from your response, you did not refer to otherwise-nice men tripping over their own feet. You talked about jerks who behave like jerks because they are jerks.
So if it seemed that my comment somehow tried to deliver any kind of excuse for any variation of misogyny, please note that this was NOT my intention.
James
“Well, we clearly had two very different types of men in mind.”
It appears we did. But I was particularly testy yesterday, so there’s that also.
You aren’t wrong in the wider applicability of my advice, just wrong about the specific behaviour I was calling out in this post which is definitely NOT about ‘wonderful men’ who are struggling with ‘style and being overzealous’.
“I’m submissive, tah daaahhh!” dudes aren’t nervous or shy or whatever. They’re often new and ignorant, sure, but even taking that on board, we’re still looking at grown men who somehow can’t imagine that dominant women are human beings and not fetish-bots champing at the bit to do them just because ‘submissive, tah daaahh’.
Ferns
The best relationships I’ve ever seen amongst my friends involve men who are normally “alpha dominant males” who simply fell in love and became vulnerable to the needs of the women they wanted to spend the rest of their lives with. And they both always go to bat for eachother.
And they turn and twist and make their lives work together.
This whole basic idea of a simplistic dom and sub is bollocks. At least in a healthy world. And now I must rebel against this by watching Star Trek and Battlestar Galactica.
P.S. I love you
I love you more.
You controversial bugger.
I can love so hard.
I think… okay, maybe not.
I’ve not tried it for a few years.
Song time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btAjbge49N4
And yes, I did watch the movie “P.S. I love you”.
It was a mistake.
I started liking someone bragging about being submissive as a person bragging about being able to breathe or drink water.
Basic things that everyone can do, it makes me want to scratch my head and answer with a “yes and…?”
A submissive isn’t hard to find ,arguably a good one is however.
Life is about mistakes.
I don’t know any more.
I love this, and the original “advice to minted subs” article. I came across your blog by complete chance, and I feel so seen and lucky. I wish I had these tips/advice when I was starting to come out as a sub. I had to learn many lessons by trial and error and it took me a while to arrive to where I am at now where I can comfortably come out to someone who’s enthusiastically curious about me. Having the language you provide gives me extra clarity, and I love how you take on these topics. This will be the morning read for me and afternoon read for my dom gf <3 Thank you again.
That’s wonderful feedback and thank you for it :).
I’m so glad I could help in some small way.
Best of luck to you and your Domme (if she’s new-ish, she will get some value out of my ‘how to’ books for new dominants :)).
Ferns
Somebody once pointed out the distinction between bottoms and submissives.
Some people are simply bottoms, they are only interested in play time.
Submissives may be bottoms during play time, but also obey their dominants in other parts of life.